I am delighted to share with you this interview with Patsy. These interviews are about showcasing the views of loyalist women. As Patsy highlights, we need to ensure the stories of loyalist women are not forgotten. We need to highlight the many different roles of loyalist women and to record them for future generations. So many women – long gone – have done so much yet we don’t hear about them or their stories remain unrecorded. Let’s do all we can to ensure these stories are captured to pass on to future generations.
Do you describe yourself as a loyalist?
Yes, I am a Loyalist, British / Irish citizen and I know some people might say what! but we are part of the United Kingdom and I was born on St Patricks day which makes me more Irish than half that claim to be. The same as some would claim to be Irish / Americans.
What does being a loyalist mean to you? How does it make you feel?
It means loyal to crown and country, my culture and identity, the person who I am and proud to be and I will never be an apologist for loyalism. I hate that we have scum drug dealers who call themselves loyalist, but I think you can’t be a loyalist and a criminal at the same time.
How do you think others view the term Loyalist and how do you think you are viewed for being a woman who is a Loyalist?
I feel that others view a loyalist people who are all scum and don’t have a clue however, a number of loyalist prisoners have proven that wrong by educating themselves and helping their community and loyalist women who have got involved in community and youth work or other work that benefits their community. I myself feel that loyalist women have not been given any respect by a lot of people and have never been asked how they feel or for their views. There is a story there that is lost and will never be heard for a lot of the women who I had the privilege of standing beside and are no longer here.
Women who kept their families, community and country together in times of need especially during the troubles. Women who were the backbone of this country and not once complained that they felt left behind they got on with it and where proud to do it. But then you have loyalist women who do come to the front and are happy with that and should get support but all they get is abuse which is wrong.
My mum was 83 and died on boxing day 2020, she was one of these strong loyalist women I talk about. She had a husband and son in jail and visited them both and continued to look after her other five children and work at the same time. She would have been the first to march or protest to protect this community. She loved to dress up in her red, white and blue on the 12th July and walk to the field with the bands right up to she was 82 when COVID-19 stopped her. I viewed myself as being a loyalist and supporting the loyalist prisoners to which I had three members of my family in jail at the same time – my husband, father and brother. It was during the ‘supergrass system’ my husband was lifted and spent two years on remand and was released when the trial collapsed due to no evidence. During this time, I would have to go to three different jails in one week as well as looking after my three children.
I think at the age of 11, I became in my eyes a supporter of the UVF more so than the UDA as I blamed them on sending my dad out to do a murder and he ended up getting a life sentence which he done 15 years and he didn’t even get to give his only daughter away on her wedding day. I also started to realise that as a daughter/sister/wife of a loyalist prisoner certain people looked at you as if you were something they scraped of their shoe.
Do you think that the Loyalist traditions, culture and identity is being eroded? If so what aspects are being eroded and why do you think that is happening?
Yes of course it is republicans who are trying to do away with anything British but they need to realise that we are British and we won’t be going anywhere. Like the taking down of the flag or trying to pull Stormont apart from within that old saying why piss outside the tent when you can do it within. The rewriting of history by SF/IRA in that the troubles only affected Catholics is wrong.
Have you been involved in any marches, protests, demonstrations or are you politically active? If so, please elaborate.
You could say that I have been politically active from the age of 10/11 when I first got involved with the vigilantes of Highfield by standing beside them in their barricades or out having a nosey at the raging gun battles between the two communities in Springmartin. I then moved onto attending my first rally to Stormont that the UDA organised. I’ve been involved in the protests for the Supergrass system and camped out for three nights at the beginning of the trail, segregation for loyalist prisoners, the right for free speech, Ulster Says No, support the loyalist prisoners, removal of the Union Flag, the Sunningdale Agreement, to name a few. I was also in three different Girls Accordion Bands. I have been involved in the 90th parade the first they had and all the 100th UVF memorial/centenary parades. I stood for the PUP in the FORUM Elections and my claim to fame is my votes when added to the late David Ervine’s helped get him elected. I was part of the community advisory team to the PUP talks team at Stormont, and I also attended a number of forums for them here in Northern Ireland, Dublin, England and even Bilbao in the Basque country in Spain. I was an executive member of the party and organised the trips to the Labour Party Conference each year. I was also a founder member of the East Belfast Victoria Branch and, also the Women’s Forum to highlight women’s representation within the party at all levels and to ensure equality. However, it was one thing putting all these proposals in place it was harder to get the women to stand at the beginning due to family issues and the thought of being targeted. I was the first on the ground in Cluan Place and put into place a strategy to help and support those living in the area who were under attack.
What are your views on Brexit and the Northern Ireland Protocol? Have you experienced any problems with getting the food you normally buy or ordering things online? (You may need to explain the issues happening at the moment if they don’t know about the issues surrounding Brexit and the NI Protocol)
I thought that when we voted on Brexit it was for the constitutional position within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, but it seems that they want to put a border between us and break the Good Friday Agreement so if this is the case then why are our politicians not taking them to court? I feel that all unionist politicians need to stand together and be one voice. I have been to the supermarkets and noticed the cost of some foods have increased, also my grandson and daughters were trying to order on-line and they wouldn’t deliver to Northern Ireland even though they did the month before.
What is your view on the Union Jack being limited in the number of days it is allowed to be flown?
I think that the flag is being used as political gains and should not be as it is the flag of this Country and should be treated with respect. It is a flag that will be draped over the coffins of our Royal Irish Soldiers whilst killed in combat on serving. It is a flag that many people have died to maintain. But I also must say that I feel it is a disgrace when the flag is put on upside down on lampposts or left tattered or torn, so my own community should also respect it and not use it to be sectarian.
What is your view on Irish street names and the Irish language?
I feel that why waste tax-payers money which could be more wisely spent, on names that most of the people in the street cannot even say or pronounce so if that street or community wish to change it then fundraiser to do so other that it doesn’t bother me.
What is your view on the re-routing of parades or parades not being allowed to take place?
My view is that why should parades be re-routed if most of these parades have a cultural significance and they do not cause any bother. If they go past a place where that people don’t agree with, why get up out of your bed to feel offended? In most cases it takes 2 minutes to pass so let it pass and let there be peace. I feel that we need to reach a place where we can respect each others culture and not feel threatened by it.
How do you feel about a United Ireland? Do you think we are closer to a United Ireland and do you think it will happen in your lifetime?
I don’t think that there will be a united Ireland in my days or my children’s as it will be up to the people to vote and I don’t think we are ready for that yet no matter how much hype Sinn Fein put on it. I certainly don’t think that many Catholics want it either as it would mean an end to free health care and certain benefits and the Republic of Ireland couldn’t afford all of us.
Do you think politicians understand the issues that concern loyalists? Do politicians listen to loyalists and do you think you have enough opportunity to have your views heard by politicians?
No! they only use loyalist people when they need them and keep putting out the fear vote as they know that is how they will vote. I remember when my brother – a loyalist prisoner – was on hunger strike he was on it for 39 days to get segregation as he was roasted with hot water being thrown around him and we asked for support from the politicians and they said if we support him them we need to do the same for the other side. The only time they listen is when they are looking your support.
What social issues ( i.e. poverty, unemployment, poor physical and mental health, lack of housing etc.) do you feel are impacting upon working class loyalists?
All of the above as they are no different from other communities and suffer the same. However, there is a lack of confidence within the loyalist community which leads to them being at a bigger disadvantage. They also tend to not tell you if they are having problems due to that old dignity and proud thing that they have going on, so you usually have to offer the help even if they tend to not except it. I think the lock down has brought back a lot of the old community spirit and there is lots of help being offered and people pulling together.
Do you think politicians are doing enough to address these social issues?
There are a few politicians from loyalist communities and they don’t forget where they came from and who help and listen to you. They are a small number , we don’t often get the support from other politicians which results in very little change.
Do you think the voices of Loyalist women are being heard? If not, how can we get to hear more loyalist women’s voices?
No, they are not being heard and a lot of them are afraid to speak out too due to the comeback on them. Like I said early there has been strong loyalist women whose voices we will never hear, and a lost history so let us start now by promoting loyalist women. We need to stop running other women down and encourage them. We need to stop criticising them as we do on their appearance, height, weight or colour. We need to listen to them and act on what they are saying and we need to support each other. We can start by getting women involved in politics with a small ‘p’, the bread and butter issues and move to the big ‘p’ by getting involved in the media / radio / news/ social media, police, politics, investment and other places. We need to help them on to and up the ladder and not pull the ladder up behind us. There also needs to be creche facilities on offer to accommodate women with children and help if they are carers.
Would you say you are a feminist?
I am a feminist but one that supports equality and if a man is better at the job than me then he should get it. There are women out there who claim to be a feminist and are he first to attack other women.
Westminster had to legislate for same sex marriage and abortion so women in Northern Ireland could have the same access as their counterparts in mainland GB. Do you support equal marriage?
Yes I support equal marriage I have no problem with supporting people who love someone who is the same sex as them and should be treated as equal as me and they should respect others and their opinions.
Are you pro-choice?
Yes, as there is certain cases that women will have to have an abortion and that will be dramatic enough without having people in their faces. But I do draw the line when other women abuse the system without thinking about the consequences.
